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Going Hunting? Or are you just out to kill! - - - 144 messages. Showing 111 through 120. Go to page: 1  2  3  4  5  6  7  8  9  10  11  12   13  14  15 
daninthewoods
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Joined 10/08/2007
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Daily Subscription Msg 111 Posted: 08:53 PM 10/27/07 (CST)
My thought is this...if hunting/trapping were banned it would result in a massive shortfall of tax dollars as this is largely funded by the relatively small number of participants. I feel the same amount of revenue should and could be brought in through the general tax system. In effect everyones personal income taxes would rise some to make the monies available..but those of you who hunt would actually see a REDUCTION to your total taxes paid per year as there would be no taxes on the outdoor gear as the needs were now spread out to all citizens. This would encourage many more folks to take an interest in preserving, restoring, and learning about the things they are funding. Nature observation, birding, hiking, fishing, mountain biking, canoeing and kayaking, etc. would see a massive boom. The tax dollars should actually INCREASE allowing for the retention of larger land purchases and habitat chunks for nature reserves that all folks could access and enjoy. It is a win/win...less taxes for those most actively involved in using the outdoors, a larger chunk of overall available funds to pay for habitat purchases, restoration, and species reintroductions... unless you feel the compulsion to kill.


No one wants there taxes to go up. Good luck getting people to approve more taxes for the outdoors, they are more concerned about having bridges to drive on that won't collapse.



daninthewoods

iFish
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Daily Subscription Msg 112 Posted: 02:31 PM 10/29/07 (CST)
Greetings folks. I’ve been a lurker here for some time and am overall disappointed in myself that this is what drags me out of the shadows but I thought I would take a swing… here it goes.



"Habitat destuction means the need to purchase lands to keep habitat secure.. that means lots of cash. Reintroduction and expansion of species ranges means lots of cash as well. My thought is this...if hunting/trapping were banned it would result in a massive shortfall of tax dollars as this is largely funded by the relatively small number of participants. I feel the same amount of revenue should and could be brought in through the general tax system. In effect everyones personal income taxes would rise some to make the monies available..but those of you who hunt would actually see a REDUCTION to your total taxes paid per year as there would be no taxes on the outdoor gear as the needs were now spread out to all citizens."

- I knew it all along SU; you really do have the hunter’s best interest in mind.

"This would encourage many more folks to take an interest in preserving, restoring, and learning about the things they are funding. Nature observation, birding, hiking, fishing, mountain biking, canoeing and kayaking, etc. would see a massive boom."

- You are fooling yourself my friend. Our tax dollars are used to fund museums and concert halls but that fact by itself has done nothing to drive traffic to those places. Our tax dollars will now be used to build a baseball stadium but I don’t know a single person who’s perspective has gone from not caring about baseball to “can’t wait to go to a game in the new park”; in fact, most of the people that I have talked to who aren’t baseball fans or concert goers resent the fact that they are paying for these resources. After reading this statement, my questions for you are: if not for the work and political advocacy of DU (hunter/member driven) do you think that wetland restoration would be such a high priority? If not for pheasants forever would there be such a push to restore native grasslands and prairie? Do you think that elk would have been reintroduced into Minnesota if not for the effort of those who wish to hunt them? Additionally; now that you have banned hunting, how will we employ the thousands of people whose livelihoods depend on hunting and hunters? Guides, resort operators, rural bar and restaurant owners and staff, sporting goods store staff, conservation officers, butchers, taxidermists, the unfortunate fellow collecting doe urine and countless other industries… perhaps these folks wont need jobs; what with all of the kayaking and mountain biking that they will be doing.

"The tax dollars should actually INCREASE allowing for the retention of larger land purchases and habitat chunks for nature reserves that all folks could access and enjoy. It is a win/win...less taxes for those most actively involved in using the outdoors, a larger chunk of overall available funds to pay for habitat purchases, restoration, and species reintroductions"

- I encourage you to actually consider what you are suggesting as it does not take much common sense to identify the problems with this theory the most glaring of which is this; now that you have banned hunting, how would you like to control the population of these animals, primarily deer. It is nice to think that because we now have all of this money to reintroduce species and improve habitat that it’s a win, win but it isn’t realistic (by the way, any situation which bans hunting is not “win, win” for the hunter). Additionally, public lands are just that, public and they are open to all people, not just those who hunt.

"... unless you feel the compulsion to kill. I agree with the monetary need...there is just a much better way to do it... if folks will release the need in their hearts to kill in order to prove something to themselves or others."

"If you are honest I think you can see that the monies to pay for these things are readily available from other sources than the purchasing of items that enable the hunt and kill."

"The financial funding of projects argument is the strongest one the hunting community has in my opinion. However, if my prescription above were followed there would be more money for those projects at a lower overall tax rate for those actually using the outdoors. In light of that this line of thought seems to fall short on the hunting side. In all honesy...since the monies can come from elsewhere then there is no reason to continue that reason as a justification for yourself except to sooth a conscience is there?"

- Your theory is flawed from the get go because while you have invested the resources needed for an ecosystem to thrive you have removed the only realistic way to manage the animal population and an unchecked animal population will destroy habitat as fast as any bulldozer. As for conservation measures being the hunters best defense; once again, you are all wet. First, the US Constitution and the principals that this great country was built upon are our best defense and second, a lot of the most beneficial habitat improvement and land management is being facilitated by private organizations such as DU, TU, PF and the NDHA all of which are privately funded and all of which work for the end result of bettering the hunt.

- Hunters are our nations greatest conservationists; there are definitely people who call themselves hunters, behave unethically and unlawfully and give the rest of us a bad name (one could argue that there are surfers who do the same) but by and large it has been the hunter (and fisherman) who has worked the hardest to ensure that Minnesota’s natural resources are well taking care of and we hunters consistently put our money where our mouth is. SU, are you suggesting that we remove the people with the most vested interest from the equation and surrender control of our resources to our state government and a hand full of kayakers and mountain bikers? Allow me to illustrate why this system would fail… Minnesota has many wonderful state parks and state park campgrounds which provide a plethora of opportunities for camping, hiking, canoeing, kayaking, biking, birding, fishing… you name it. A few years ago there wasn’t enough money in the state budget to fund the maintenance needs at a lot of parks so the parks asked for visitors to volunteers there time and money in attempt to keep the lights on. What happened? There wasn’t enough of a response to keep a lot of the facilities open and some parks had to drastically limit their resources… your bikers and kayakers didn’t care enough to put their money where there mouth is. Now look at the crash that the states pheasant population took. It was hunters who lobbied the legislature to expand the CRP program and public habitat and hunters, through PF, who used their own money to purchase land, in conjunction with the DNR, to turn into public WMA’s where the habitat could be effectively managed; the pheasant population is now better than it’s been in decades… and you want to remove hunters from the equation?

- You seem to be really hung up on killing. Hunters keep telling you that it isn’t about killing and you keep arguing that it is. I think that it is a good thing that you no longer hunt… for you it was obviously all about killing (you have admitted this) and I think that is the wrong way to approach the sport as it shows a lack of maturity as well as an overall lack of respect for the animal being hunted.

Is it about the kill? Partially. Does it go far beyond that? Absolutely! You will likely never understand what it is that keeps us in the field… it’s something one feels in his sole… it ether speaks to you or it doesn’t. Personally, I can’t imagine life without the thrill of the hunt, the exhilaration and finality of the kill or the special bond with friends and family that sharing a hunt provides.

Surfs Up; grab a board my friend, the water’s calling you. As for me… I’m going hunting.
iFish
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Joined 10/29/2007
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Daily Subscription Msg 113 Posted: 02:36 PM 10/29/07 (CST)
By the way; the grouse hunting has been hit or miss for me. Last Saturday the pup flushed eight in two and a half hours and on sunday we went on the same walk and didn't see a bird.
Bobber Down
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Joined 10/03/2005
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Daily Subscription Msg 114 Posted: 02:40 PM 10/29/07 (CST)
iFish,
Welcome to the site, we hope you stick around a while! By the way thanks for your point of view, I like to see them all. Good luck grouse hunting, I missed one I should have gotten yesterday, but I hesitated because I didn't know where the dog was. Anyway, Welcome and good luck! wink smiley


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WebDude
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Joined 02/26/2004
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Daily Subscription Msg 115 Posted: 08:31 PM 10/29/07 (CST)
Hey iFish,

Welcome to My Fishing Pals. Glad to have you aboard!



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Hammer Time
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Joined 01/07/2005
Posts:639

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Daily Subscription Msg 116 Posted: 02:46 AM 10/30/07 (CST)
What’s all the hub bub about?
I don’t care what you call it… the free-range harvesting of meat is the purist (and most humane for the animal) form of feeding yourself.

And just to be fair…so is gathering nuts and berries.












Logan
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Joined 10/09/2007
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Daily Subscription Msg 117 Posted: 06:42 PM 10/31/07 (CST)
Surfs Up-- Dude, when you catch fish they are more likely to die than if you just let them be. Why don't you find other ways to get your kicks? Or is it just about the potential kill or wounding of a fish?? Surely you could just ride in a boat or walk by a river with a pole in your hand? You said that hunters must hunt for the kill, well then isn’t it fair for me to say you only participate in fishing to potentially wound or kill a fish? After all, it is the inevitable result of you catching them.

I haven’t read everything so if I am repeating people I am sorry. As far as deer go. Bottom line, Hunting deer is necessary to maintain the wildlife in MN. It isn’t just the deer that are affected. Back when we cut the naturally growing evergreen forests down It wasn‘t the same evergreen forests that grew back. It was actually hardwood forests. In some places prairies took hold. As a result, the deer population sky rocketed. Hunts were mandated because the deer population rose higher than the land could naturally sustain. True we could consider hunting to be unnatural and allow all that is natural to take its course. But it must be known that without hunting, the deer would strip the land and many animals would face hard times, starvation, and disease. No reason to worry because hunting won’t stop. Surfs Up, you must remember that government is in place to protect our natural rights they do not play a role in giving us those rights.

Thanks,
Logan
“The open mind never acts: when we have done our utmost to arrive at a reasonable conclusion, we still- must close our minds for the moment with a snap, and act dogmatically on our conclusions”

BACKWOODSBOY15
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Joined 09/20/2007
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Daily Subscription Msg 118 Posted: 07:06 PM 11/06/07 (CST)
I just wanted to tell everyone that I shot a small button-buck saturday morning, it was clean an quick, which brings me to my point to surfs-up. Why do hunters practice? Well, I have an answer. The reason why I practice is not to make a bad shot, you want it to be quick so the animal does not feel the pain. When you shoot, the animal knows he was hit by something and is running at top speed with full addreniline, everybody knows when your addreniline is high you can't feel alot of pain, well if you make a quick clean shot, that animal is going to die quick with little pain. Thats why I practice.....
Grouseye
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Joined 10/22/2007
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Daily Subscription Msg 119 Posted: 12:31 PM 11/07/07 (CST)
Backwoods,
That's the same reason I practice my bird hunting with clays! My goal is to have NO Wounded birds.
Ted
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Joined 07/18/2004
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Daily Subscription Msg 120 Posted: 02:44 PM 11/07/07 (CST)
Welcome to the forum, iFish!


Ted

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Going Hunting? Or are you just out to kill! - - - 144 messages. Showing 111 through 120. Go to page: 1  2  3  4  5  6  7  8  9  10  11  12   13  14  15 
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