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Jason Lewis wrong again - - - 26 messages. Showing 1 through 10. Go to page: 1   2  3 
Odin
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Daily Subscription Msg 1 Posted: 06:34 PM 12/21/09 (CST)
In his essay in today's Strib, Lewis claims the estate tax is a violation of the property rights of the rich people who earned the money. "Clinton's consternation over letting folks keep what they've earned over a lifetime betrays the cavalier attitude Democrats take toward property," Lewis says.

Apparently Lewis doesn't understand the Natural Law philosophy America was founded on, although like a lot of conservatives he thinks he does. Corpses, no matter how rich, are not "folks" and have no property rights.

Hard to tell if he thinks he's being cute. A lot of conservatives like to pretend they don't know it's heirs who pay the estate tax, not the dead, probably because it's hard to argue that most heirs deserve the money.
Logan
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Daily Subscription Msg 2 Posted: 12:15 AM 12/22/09 (CST)
my $700 check is down to $500 after taxes. I have $20,000 in school debt and my parents won't be leaving me much in the form of money or property.

However, When I stay up late every night working on getting a business going, rebuilding an old home and reading posts on MFP. I think about if all of these extra hours will benefit me in some way. I've come to the conclusion that they will. Maybe I don't succeed and all my time gains me no monetary success. I'm not worried about it.. I have shelter and I have food.

If I do get ahead. If I end up with money. I hope I can keep it and use it how I see fit. I hope when I die my children can get my property and the government and you keep your hands off.

Like I said, I doubt I'll end up with this kind of money. But If I do, It will be because I take risks and I work really hard. I'm proud as hell of the efforts I make regardless of the outcome.





Bkchero
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Daily Subscription Msg 3 Posted: 12:32 PM 12/22/09 (CST)
So why should the govt. get the money instead of my kids/wife?

Because they won't waste it? laugh smiley

Because, according to those who think they know best, I did a poor job of raising my kids? tongue smiley

Or because they would rather let others who didn't work as hard as I did "share the wealth" (to quote the pres.) instead of letting my family enjoy the fruits of my hard work. . . . smile smiley

How about, instead of creating a society where everybody thinks they are entitled to a govt. handout, why don't we try to teach some personal responsibility--you know, take care of yourself and your loved ones and you won't need the govt.

What a joke. Tell the bleeding-heart handout seekers to go get a job.

Sorry to rant. Taxes and big govt. are a sore subject.
Odin
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Daily Subscription Msg 4 Posted: 05:28 PM 12/22/09 (CST)
It's not surprising that the monied elite have managed to persuade many Americans to vote contrary to their economic interests, given that admen can sell everything from pet rocks to fake hamsters. The "someday I may be rich" rationale mostly benefits those who're already rich. Meanwhile college and healthcare costs are going through the roof, as is the national debt.

You have a natural right to property, but there is no natural right to bequeath or inherit. Your natural right to control the disposition of your property ends when you die. Corpses have no property rights.

Who deserves the wealth of the deceased more - family progeny who've in most cases done little or nothing to aid in its accumulation, or the society that has provided the environment for wealth creation and accumulation? In most instances, the latter probably has more of a moral claim.
Domino Dave
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Daily Subscription Msg 5 Posted: 05:59 PM 12/22/09 (CST)
The dead can have a lot of rights. It's called a will. And my attorney can make sure that my rights are followed even after I die. And while you are at it why don't you bequeath us with a fishing report? We just need to know where they are biting, and what they are biting on. This way I can include a few more fish on the wall in my postmortum bill of rights. smile smiley smile smiley
Odin
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Daily Subscription Msg 6 Posted: 09:25 PM 12/22/09 (CST)
"The dead can have a lot of rights. It's called a will."

No. We honor wills because of tradition and law and because in some instances it makes economic sense for society, not because the dead have rights.
Logan
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Daily Subscription Msg 7 Posted: 02:58 AM 12/23/09 (CST)
"It's not surprising that the monied elite have managed to persuade many Americans to vote contrary to their economic interests"

odin, dude. honestly to me that just sounds selfish. Some times our economic interests have to take a back seat.

I think it's a very thin line between your thinking and the thinking of a tyrant. I know you don't see it that way. But I see it that way.

Smoking is bad for society; BAN IT!
exercise is good for society; MANDATE IT!
Leaving all your property to your children is bad for society; TAX IT!


Humans could conceivably create the greatest society of all. One where freedom leads to prosperity. One where your money is never taken but instead people give willingly to each other. No mandates, no taxes, just people living for each other. If you can imagine it then it's possible. That's what I believe. I know I'm a dreamer but I'm worried. I'm worried that this system of forced thievery is leaving us jaded. Leaving us clutching the dollars we can keep.

I'm worried that we might take and give with good intentions but actually be taking more than money. We might be taking that persons opportunity to give on under free will. Not because the tax mandates it but because they had extra and they thought it was right. How much better does that person end up?

Any ways.. I'm done with this topic. I like thinking about it but I can only devote so much time to discussing it.





Odin
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Daily Subscription Msg 8 Posted: 08:28 AM 12/23/09 (CST)
The point of my original post, and the fallacy of Lewis's argument, is that the estate tax doesn't take from "folks" who spend a lifetime accumulating wealth. Instead it takes from those (the heirs) who in most instances deserve the money less than the society that helped the deceased create it.

I'm against the govt taking people's hard-earned wealth and giving it to the undeserving too. The estate tax doesn't do that.
Sonar
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Daily Subscription Msg 9 Posted: 11:42 PM 12/24/09 (CST)
Now I know who voted for Franken.
Odin
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Daily Subscription Msg 10 Posted: 10:09 AM 12/28/09 (CST)
People with IQs over room temperature?

It'll be interesting to see how the 30 Repubs who voted against Franken's anti-rape amendment explain their vote to their constituents.
Jason Lewis wrong again - - - 26 messages. Showing 1 through 10. Go to page: 1   2  3 
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