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AMERICAN INNOCENCE......REALLY? - - - 3 messages. Showing 1 through 3.
SurfsUp
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Joined 08/06/2007
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Daily Subscription Msg 1 Posted: 08:38 PM 12/17/09 (CST)
darkhouseartist started a thread that left the topic and this is in response to that issue. In the thread he stated...

"Perhaps we are asking the wrong people what America is like".
and
"I love this country and am PROUD of her. I'm PROUD of what we stand for and I'm PROUD of what we have accomplished in such a short amount of time".

Let me shine a little light into that darkened thinking about our country being the "greatest place on earth and harbinger of justice.

The following was an article by John Potter for the Billings Gazette. It was published only a day or two after the shocking attacks of 9/11. Please read it with an open mind and I think that perhaps the lights may come on in your world.


TODAY WE ARE ALL NATIVE AMERICANS by John Potter on 9/15/2001

Terror and death filled the air.

The attack was totally unpredictable, and our people taken completely by surprise.

One minute, we were living our peaceful, ordinary lives, savoring a beautiful morning, playing with our children or going about our “business as usual.” In the next moment, explosions, balls of fire and smoke, the air filled with the screams of helpless men, women and children, the bodies of friends and family falling torn and lifeless at our feet.

And the children. What about our children?

In the first moments of the attack, brave ones charged forward in valiant efforts to rescue the wounded and hasten survivors to places of safety. Then another vicious and cowardly attack, explosions rock the air, and our world comes down in fire, taking the lives of the rescuers as well.

Through the horror, the chaos and the savagery of these assaults on our people, we know that our lives — our very way of life — will never be the same again. Attacked by a foreign and hateful presence, the lives of innocent people torn from our hearts on our own native soil, we wrestle with emotions and decisions heretofore unknown to us. Ones that we thought we were forever insulated from.

We have been violated.


History lessons
And what about our children? Will they ever feel safe again?

We need time to find our relatives, for some might still survive. We need time to mourn the loss of our people. We need to gather what food we can find, find our weapons and find our ponies scattered in the hills. Above all, we need to gather together and pray for the future of our people.

You see, this account of horror could’ve been written dozens of times throughout the brief and glorious history of our nation.

Perhaps after the Baker Massacre of the Blackfeet Indians. Innocent men, women and children killed senselessly and brutally.

Perhaps after the Sand Creek Massacre of the Cheyennes in Colorado. Again, innocent noncombatants slaughtered beneath not only a white flag of truce, but an American flag as well.

Or perhaps the same could’ve been written after the “battle” of the Washita, where Black Kettle and the rest of his family and survivors of Sand Creek were cut down by Custer.

Need I even mention Wounded Knee?

Terror is not new to American soil, nor is our government a stranger to it.

This nation was begun, expanded, and founded on terrorism — but in those times it was cloaked in the shimmering mantle of “Manifest Destiny.” Thousands of innocent Native American men, women and children were murdered in the name of this particular form of terrorism.

You may argue that was war, but does any war justify the killing of women? Of the elderly? The killing of babies?

Make no mistake, whoever attacked our nation last Tuesday certainly is at war with us, but does that justify the horrific deaths of so many innocent men, women and children?

Source:
Know our enemy

The point is, all governments, all people are capable of terrorism. The United States stands proudly as the world’s defender of truth, justice, democracy and human rights, yet our government is not innocent.

Remember Kent State? Innocent people died.

Remember My Lai?

And if you DON’T think that thousands of innocent people have been killed so that we can put gasoline in our SUVs, perhaps you need to think again. Why do you think they’re dancing in the streets in Palestine?

Our government and our nation is outraged, filled with righteous indignation, and rightly so. I am as hurt and angered and hungry to retaliate against those responsible as anyone else.

But we cannot go forward under the blind belief that our own government has not carried out acts of terror, on our own soil and around the world. We need to remember that our own government, throughout its brief history, has committed horrible acts of terrorism against innocent people, as well. In this way, we can begin to know our enemy, begin to understand the anger and the hatred they feel for us. It is not an unjustified anger. Not something that they’ve made up.

Native Americans have known that anger. Native Americans cannot help but remember certain moments in our history that stand out as events that forever changed our way of life, changed the way we look at the world, and changed the stories that we tell our children. Our history and destiny were forever altered by the terrorism of the late 1800s.

But we have survived.

And so shall our great nation.

For now, we need time to find our relatives, for some of them might still survive. We need time to mourn the loss of so many of our people. We need time to grieve.

We then need to solidify, gather our strength, unify behind our leaders, take steps to protect our people and our homeland and somehow punish the enemy.

For we are all one people now, we are ALL Native Americans.

And above all, we need to gather together as one and pray for the future of our people. Because, what about the children?


Get The Board,
SurfsUp
Logan
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Joined 10/09/2007
Posts:560

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Daily Subscription Msg 2 Posted: 12:08 AM 12/22/09 (CST)
I never saw the original post that you are responding to. regardless, I don't know how is this article is a response to those quotes?

I see nothing in those quotes claiming American innocence. Furthermore, I would love to know which major country has a history of pure innocence because I'm unaware that it exists..

I'm sure every one realizes that this country and the rest of the world has been involved in some pretty messed up stuff. Lots of us believe in this republic and what it stands for. Many of us think we truly do value freedom and individualism far more than collectivist European nations who appear to me to be not that worried about it. We have accomplished some great things in a short period of time, all under one founding document and with one government structure. All while European countries have been restructuring, uprooting, and rewriting their own over and over again trying to find stability.

I'm not saying this country is the best of all but I definitely respect that opinion.

Surfs Up, is there a country that you consider to be the best in the world? Or are you just against the concept of a superior nation?









darkhouseartist
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Joined 12/11/2009
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Daily Subscription Msg 3 Posted: 09:02 AM 12/25/09 (CST)
Logan; This was my response but the conversation got moved...

Dude.
You start your writings (above) with the words "Perhaps we are asking the wrong people what America is like".

The words “is” suggests that we are still just like that…

You showcase events such as the Baker Massacre of the Blackfeet Indians, and the Sand Creek Massacre of the Cheyennes in Colorado, or what Custer did at the battle of the Washita, or what happened at Wounded Knee.

You also quote me saying how proud I am of “what we have accomplished in such a short amount of time". But you see, MY focus is upon the fact that we’ve improved from where we’ve been, while YOUR thesis seems to be on leaving no stone unturned (in a perpetual search) that may reveal anything bad anyone in our country has ever done and then supposing that our country still represents those things (of which none of us are proud of). Interestingly, very few “bad” things are ever uncovered by those with your passion during a democrat administration.

Anyway, in that case, should we be writing books and showcasing the war-time atrocities carried out by Yankee soldiers in the south? Or should the war be taught in our public schools (as it is) as the war that ended slavery?

When we think of the good people of Germany should we untrustingly brand them as Nazis in our minds because of the horrifying things not only Hitler did but literally HUNDREDS of ancestor soldiers? I think not. That was then, this is now. Should the German people walk around in shame to this day because of what their grandfather did? Hell no!

There seems to be this passion on the left in this country to showcase every fault and shortcoming and every wicked event that ever took place here or abroad with our military or CIA, etc… The thing I am most amused with is that while a democrat is in office during war time – collateral damage on the battle field is “unfortunate and sad” (yet rarely reported on by CNN, MSNBC, and the rest of the liberal-leaning press). However, when a republican president is in office during war time - collateral damage on the battle field is “horrific and unacceptable and atrocious” (not just reported on but showcased by CNN, MSNBC, and the rest of the liberal-leaning press on a daily and weekly body count fashion, faithfully tallying up the horrors of war as if it were some kind of thoughtless game to the conservatives who “care nothing about the lives of innocent victims”). If anyone reading this denies this VIVID / HIGH CONTRAST observation, then there’s simply no reason to believe they have ANY ability to even comprehend the word “objective” concerning the blatantly obvious double standard on this subject.

I live in a very busy metropolitan area, and on several street corners (before Bush was out of office there were throngs of protesters holding signs and chanting “Bring ALL the troops home NOW!”. "NOW, NOW, NOW" they chanted... But since the new administration took over there has never been even ONE of those protesters on those corners. How do you process that???? Is it because Obama has given them all a beautiful "hope" that the "process" of bringing them home is well underway??? Maybe thats it... Why didn't I think of that?

CNN and MSNBC and CBS and ABC pretty much stopped running “Special Reports” on the victims of war (whether it be 10 people or 1 child losing a leg) the second President Obama sat down in the oval office chair. What are we to make of that MORE-THAN-OBVIOUS observation??? Do you think I’m making this stuff up???

If Bush were in office right now (be completely honest with yourself), what would the people on the left be saying and doing with all the EXACT SAME SITUATIONS our country is in????? They would be on the sidewalks holding signs that say “It’s the economy, stupid!!!” along with “END THIS WAR NOW!!!” You know it, and I know it.
The fact that all that “stimulus” money didn’t even make a dent in the jobless situation would not simply be a matter of “we need to give our President time”, but there WOULD BE a PASSIONATE CALL from congress members on the left for an INVESTIGATION to show us WHERE ALL THE MONEY WENT, and along with that – the call for impeachment for the absolute INCOMPITENCE of the conservative administration who has no sense of accountability to the American people.

THAT, my friends, and you know it as well as I know it, is what would be happening RIGHT NOW if a republican was doing what the present administration has been doing with OUR money (I’m sorry, China’s money). And by the way, at what point will the left stop talking about what Bush did and start talking about what Obama is NOT accomplishing (I’m sorry, “changing”). I kid-you-not, BILL CLINTON (someone I would never vote for) would have TURNED THIS JOBLESS SITUATION AROUND BY NOW, and there would be undeniable progress that both the right and the left would have to admit to and applaud.

Unfortunately, when people were passionately against the policies of Bush it was called “patriotism”, but now it is called “racism”. But here ya go… I have no problem with a black President (I actually think it is a glorious testament to the world of how far we’ve come as a country), but the fact is – this guy and Palosi (if you really do your homework) makes Bill and Hilary Clinton look like Newt Gingridge and Sarah Palin!


In closing;
Imagine a republican that once (once) “visited” a church where a preacher was filmed saying something like “God damn America” having a snowball’s chance in hell of even becoming the candidate for president. When CNN and MSNBC were finished with him there wouldn’t even be pieces left on the ground to pick up.

By the way, the party of John F. Kennedy is gone.
The new party has a NEW mantra…
It goes something like this…
“Ask not what you can do for your country, because we, up here in Washington know what’s best for you and are actually trying to implement some radical and revolutionary new plans that will pretty much take care of your every need, from cradle to grave.”

By the way, our level of power up here (on this beautiful hill in Washington DC) is dictated by how many citizens NEED and RELY and DEPEND on us (key word, dependencies). It’s a beautiful thing! “Won’t you please come to Chicago or else join the other side.”

Kenneth Dahl
PS I will NOT hang my head low in shame because of whatever shortcomings this country has had or still has, but will continue to build on the positives and the good-hearted benevolent people of my great land called America. We’ve come so far, and we will continue to improve and get better and better… This is STILL the most desired place on earth to live… That’s not arrogance, that is PRIDE. There is a difference.

PS2 I don't know exactly how I put myself in this passionate discussion because I actually do not have the time in my busy schedule for it... I'll not say anything more on a political subject in this forum for mainly 2 reasons...
1. Most people who are passionate about politics (right or left) have turned their philosophy into a religion (which arguing even the facts will not change.
2. A business philosopher once told me... "Spend most of your time, energy, and talent on the things that give you back the most return". That would be my art business.
Ken D
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